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I recently connected with an extraordinary individual, who is a Renaissance Physician in the fullest sense! Dr. Roger Cicala is a fully transitioned, 100% non-clinical physician. I think Dr. Cicala's story is so engaging and powerful to me because, I cannot even fathom taking that 100% plunge into the non-clinical realm. A part of me continues to cling to clinical medicine because I'm scared. I'm scared I won't be good at something outside of medicine or healthcare, and I'm scared I won't be good enough to make a living doing it.  My friends and family know I have a business where I help medical clinic owners grow and scale their clinics so they can work as much or as little as they want and build long-term assets. But this is my part-time business, something I've been growing over the last year. I've learned about business, friendships, sales, life, etc.  I'll be the first to admit, when I lose money or something doesn't go right (and I learn a huge lesson) in my non-clinical business, I still have that comfort knowing that I still have a successful clinical career. I can see a paycheck every month. So how does one take that plunge to go all in, 100% non-clinical? Let's find out! ----------------------------------------Start Interview--------------------------------------- 1. Please tell us what you currently do today. I’m the founder and part- owner of Lensrentals.com, which is the world’s largest camera and lens rental company. If you see photographs from a sporting event, watch a commercial or a music video, chances are pretty good it was made using our equipment. I own two smaller companies; Olaf Optical Testing, which tests camera lenses, and C-4 optics which makes specialty camera lenses. I am retired from the day-to-day operations at Lensrentals but still fairly active there as a consultant. The other two businesses take up perhaps 20 hours a week of my time and honestly are mostly because I think they’re cool. 2. When did you decide you wanted something more than a clinical career? Did something happen that triggered this? Were you at a certain point in your career or life? I was in my early 40s. I’d always been happy in medicine, but I wasn’t a ‘die with my lab coat on’ kind of doctor. I loved medical school and enjoyed practice, but it wasn’t my life. I made a good income, lived a good lifestyle, but didn’t have a lot of financial plans for my future. When my father passed away, I was suddenly aware that I had made no financial plans for my future and needed to do something to be secure financially. At the same time medicine was changing, I realized I was never going to make more money than I was making. 3. How do you deal with other physicians and non-physicians (and possibly your family and friends) who don’t understand why you want to leave clinical medicine? Well, at first, they all thought I was out of my mind. I mean “You’re leaving medicine to rent camera lenses??????? Roger, maybe you need some therapy.” When I announced I wanted to go part time for 6 months and then leave, the medical director of my group patted me on the head and told me to talk our business manager so he could explain things to me. I showed the business manager my books and in 15 minutes he said, “you need to go part time to run this and leave in 6 months. This is awesome.” After that the rest of the docs thought we were both nuts. I stayed friends with most of my partners and a few came and saw what I was doing. You know, they noticed I worked Monday to Friday and didn’t take call, etc. Within a year they talked about me like I had made parole early. “He got out. He’s doing great out there. He won’t be back.” At this point I can’t think of one of my physician friends who isn’t a little envious. 4. What were the first few side hustles/businesses you tried? How did you decide on these to start with? I had contributed to medical textbooks so I started writing as a side gig. At first contract work; I would ghost-rewrite physician chapters in textbooks when brilliant docs couldn’t write well. Then I started doing contract work for textbook companies, ghostwriting chapters in Nursing, paramedical, and medicolegal textbooks. Honestly, the money wasn’t worth the time it took; I made about $5,000 a chapter but a chapter took a month or more to finish. Next I wrote some medical books for lay people, got an agent, the whole deal. The idea was they had a 5 to 7-year life, I’d be getting royalty checks that whole time. I thought after I had 4 or 5 books out, that would be a great income stream. It ended up being an income trickle. I remember one 6-month royalty check that was about enough for a nice dinner out. 5. When did you make your full exit from clinical medicine? What were the steps you took to get there? Did you plan years in advance? I started Lensrentals in 2006-2007. For a couple of years it was strictly a side gig, although it was growing rapidly. After that I wanted to keep my medical income so I didn’t have to take money out of the LR income stream to live on, I wanted to reinvest it all. By 2009 I thought I’d have to leave medicine and in late 2010 I did. 6. Were you scared the first year out of clinical medicine? No, I was too busy to be scared. We were growing at 100% a year and I was working 80 hour weeks. I kept my licenses active and kept my CME current for a couple of years ‘just in case’, but really never considered returning. 7. How did you decide to go the route you did; why not pharma? Well, my goal was more to build a business and equity, not to get a good job. I despise multi-level marketing; I know some people do really well with it but it’s too much rah-rah yay team stuff for me. 8. What is your day structured like now? Well, I’m trying to learn how to retire, I don’t need to work financially, but I don’t have much in the way of hobbies. So, I’ve cut down to 8 hour days, and very little of the work I do know has deadlines. Olaf is a research company, we develop new testing methods and I employ a bunch of graduate student interns on and off site. I am retired from Lensrentals, other than, as they put it being “Our lovely and talented spokesmodel”. I go in and do whatever interests me, but I take a lot more time off than I used to. I bought a house at the beach this summer and go down there once a month. I plan on maybe working two weeks a month next year. Unless I get bored. ☺ 9. What do you do with MD degree? Do you still renew your licenses? I did for about 3 years, but stopped after that. I felt like I was too far removed to just walk back into practicing and was comfortable by then that I’d never need to. 10. Did you take business courses? How do you know how to do all of this? Do you have a mentor? No, I had no clue, and no. I looked into business mentors and incubators and consultants. It really felt like each of them had a fairly set ‘method’ they would push on me, and I’m cynical. I kept thinking ‘if this method is so great, why aren’t you out there making a fortune off of it instead of just charging consultant fees. I had a very simple Southern philosophy: “Go where they ain’t”. When they said ‘462 people were successful doing this’ I heard ‘462 people already have a head start on you’. I got an idea that no one else was doing, my target market was the entire United States, and there was no competition. That made more sense to me than hearing ‘this is how Joe was successful in his town and you could do it in your town’. That played out well. Around 20 other companies emulated our business model eventually. They were too late; we had too much of a head start. We grew really quickly because we were filling a vacuum. They entered into an area that already had established competition. Of those 20 other startups, one is still alive and doing OK. We absorbed 4. I think all the others have gone under. All that being said, I’m really lucky. When I started this my son and daughter were in college. My daughter and her husband are both MBAs, my son is a JD and CPA. So, I had business consultants on deck when we got large enough to need them. The hardest part wasn’t starting the business or making it successful, though. It was recognizing that after a certain size it wasn’t so much about my great idea and awesome guerilla marketing campaign. It was about good business practices that I knew very little about, and that it was time to turn it over to people who understood those practices. I did that (and I’ll admit there were some claw marks where I had trouble letting go) and the business went from ‘bigger than I had hoped’ to ‘bigger than I had ever dreamed possible’. As a physician, I was used to managing small groups: 7 people, a dozen. When we got to 20 employees, I realized we needed structure and hierarchy that really, I didn’t have the skill set to provide. I think it’s around 180 employees now. I’d have long since lost my mind trying to manage that. 11. If a physician wanted to leave clinical medicine, what would you say to that doctor? What would be the steps you recommend? First get your finances in order. I see a lot of people who want more income to let them buy a bigger house and a newer Porsche. If you’re in debt up to your eyeballs, you are going to have problems raising capital. Then be ready to take a risk and to work your butt off. There will come a day when you have to say “Wow, I could lose everything!” and you believe in yourself and take a chance. There will come a day when you ask yourself if the extra hours are worth it. About a year after that day I looked around and went ‘wow, I can retire now’. I didn’t, but I could have. 12. Did you work with a physician coach at any point? Do you recommend transition coaches? No, I didn’t and I really don’t have an opinion on that. 13. What kind of financial situation do you recommend a physician to be in, when he/she is ready to make the exit? Should all their loans be paid off, should they have a certain amount in savings, etc? I don’t think there’s a point. You don’t have to be debt free, certainly. You need to have more capital available than you expect, and if you’re juggling credit cards and have more debt than you should you won’t be able to get it. But reasonable debt with a good payment history won’t be a problem. My watershed month was this: I had spent all my savings, borrowed against my house and taken out a personal loan. I was out of funds and demand was huge. I ran up an $80,000 Amex bill buying more equipment and that bill was due at the end of the month. That month we did $82,000 and made the payment literally the day it was due. I was never badly stressed again, but I didn’t sleep much that month. If I was to recommend an advisor for anyone it would be a “capital procurement helper”. I tried to get loans my first few years and got turned down right and left. When my daughter, the MBA, came on board I told her there was no way to get a loan, we hadn’t been in business long enough. She said OK, and the next day went out for an hour and came back with a $250,000 line of credit from a bank that had turned me down 6 months before. She said, “They remembered you. You went in there and talked about cameras and lenses and ideas. I went and talked bank.” --------------------------------------------End Interview------------------------------------- Wow, I learned so much! I loved the advice of "go where they ain't" and get a head start on your competitors! Also, it's very helpful to have lawyer and/or CPA in your family (hehe).  I'll leverage my friend for that advantage. Most of all, I'm so inspired that Dr. Cicala saw more to himself and his life (no pun intended) and pursued something entirely new. You can tell he pivots and adapts to change quickly, a major trait that is crucial to success in all aspects of life. Thank you Dr. Cicala for sharing your time with us!
Hi everyone, today's interview is a pretty fascinating and interesting one. Many physicians I work with and those that I know personally, are looking for various ways to create and invest their money so they can work towards building long-term assets and generating additional and/or passive income. While I don't think everyone's goal is to retire early and stop working entirely, we want to have the choice to change careers and find new passions and, most of all, I think we want control in our lives, so that our livelihoods aren't determined by external forces outside of our control like politics, acquisitions, mergers, etc.  I've been quite interested in real estate investing myself, but haven't really taken a big step towards it because, honestly, I don't know very much about it and I'm afraid of doing something wrong. So in attempt to learn more, in this last month, I joined a new Facebook group for physicians looking to learn about creating passive incomes, one of which is real estate investing. It was to my delight when I spoke with Dr. Thomas Black, a physician and real estate investor who cofounded his own company to help other physicians grow their personal wealth through real estate investment.  So I knew I had to pick his brain to learn more! Hope you enjoy the interview! Start Interview:  1. Can you tell us more about yourself and your journey? I’ve had a rather circuitous journey in both my medical and investing careers. After barely graduating high school, I joined the Navy, where eventually I decided to become a doctor. So, after I left the Navy, I went to undergrad and medical school where, to everyone’s surprise, I graduated at the top of my class. I then did my post-grad and residency in Indianapolis and bought my first house with my wife. As we discovered three years later, we had purchased our home at the peak of the real estate market, and by the time his time in residency concluded, the housing market had changed drastically. We were unable to sell the house at the price we required and decided to mitigate our loss by renting it to an incoming resident. This is when my fascination with real estate and the passive income it generates began.  Following residency, I began practicing in an extremely high-volume trauma center in East Texas, and although the income was good, I was working incredibly long and stressful hours, rarely saw my family, and was very quickly getting to a point where I was completely burned out. In fact, I had started to question whether I’d made the right choice in becoming a physician. I owned several single-family homes in Houston at this time and for whatever reason, decided to develop an apartment complex from the ground up on some land I’d purchased in town. This project is what gave me the idea that I could reduce my workload if I could create enough passive income from my real estate investments. Thankfully, my wife was a huge support and we decided to aggressively pursue this financial path. I resigned my partnership in the practice to move to the Dallas/Fort Worth where I could easily access what I was not focusing on, which was commercial and multifamily real estate. Right after that, my brother Tim retired from his 32-year career. His most recent position had been with Great Wolf Resorts as their Chief Operating Officer. He had led them in opening eight resorts during his tenure there, so he had and still has a phenomenal mind for operations. Once Tim understood the benefits of multifamily and the cash flow it creates, we decided to put our skills together, and we founded Napali Capital. Our hope is that we can provide physicians with diverse, strategic, tax-incentivized investment opportunities to help them create the cash flow and sustainable passive income to create wealth and allow them some flexibility in their professional time commitments. We’ve been up and running as a company for two years in December, and we currently own more than 1200 doors in 3 states. We’re proud of our company and team. 2. Do you currently actively practice?  Yes, I do currently practice and I’m also a Regional Medical Director for eight Baylor Scott and White Emergency Hospitals. When I’m not working my “day job,” I’m investing through Napali Capital. The structure of my day is a little hard to explain because, thanks to the cash flow I’m generating and reinvesting through the company, I have flexibility when it comes to how many shifts I take. I still enjoy practicing medicine, so I do a few shifts per month. 3. For someone who is investing and generating passive income, was this something you  always wanted to do or how did you get into it? It was a gradual shift for me. As I mentioned, it was out of necessity that we rented out our first house but that was the catalyst for me to really think about real estate in a different way. Once I had that shift in thinking and started applying what I’d learned through experience (and some mistakes), and realized the potential, it became more exciting. That’s when I got really aggressive with seeking out opportunities. 4. For those interested in real estate and assets, how much cash flow would someone need  before they can start investing in real estate? There’s not a right amount. There are so many different types and classes of real estate that if it’s something you want to do, just find what fits your budget and knowledge base. And if you don’t have that knowledge base, find someone who does who can help. So often, we hear form our investors that they put off real estate investing because they either a) thought they didn’t have enough money to start or b) didn’t know enough about it. And honestly, that’s one part of why we started the company: to allow for people to jump in with someone who’s done it and can help get them invested. You just have to jump in – responsibly, of course - or it will never happen. 5. What were some ways you made passive incomes? My passive income has been primarily through my real estate investing. I’ve done both single-family and multifamily, NNN leases and development. I’ve also authored a book, “The Passive Income Physician: Surviving a Career Crisis by Expanding Net Worth.” 6. What are the major challenges you face now, given that you’re at a high level of  investing/passive income? I think the challenge is managing the time to find that next opportunity that meets all the requirements we’re looking for. And now, I invest through our company alongside many other individuals who put their trust in us. We take that responsibility seriously, so there is a certain amount of pressure to make sure that what we invest in, what we offer our investors, is going to be profitable for everyone. To do that, you have to look at many, many deals before you find the right one—and that takes time. Fortunately, we have a team who is great at narrowing the options, though, and that helps a lot. 7. What’s the next step for you?  The next step is to continue to grow my personal wealth and the wealth of my peers through Napali Capital. As a company we have some really exciting developments coming in the upcoming months, so I’m eager to continue pushing those to fruition with the team!  8. What’s one piece of advice you can leave our physicians with?  Easy. Change your mindset, and you’ll change your life. In speaking with other physicians, the most common obstacle I come across that limits their ability to achieve financial freedom is that they can’t make that shift their mindset to get past thinking that after years of training, they need to just stay the course and focus on working as hard as they can until they retire. It’s amazing to see the transformation once they can look beyond that and think of how to create a stable, continuous, additional source of income that allows them to call the shots. Financial freedom and the freedom of professional choice go hand in hand. End Interview. The more I speak to physicians doing all sorts of different careers, side hustles, etc, the more I get the resonating message that improving one's mindset is the first step to making any change. This is very powerful. Your mind will truly be your biggest enemy or friend. Dr. Thomas Black was also so kind to send me a copy of his book. I'm awaiting it anxiously so I can read and learn more. I'll let you know what I learn from it in a later review :). You can check out his website at Napalicap.com.
I am beyond excited to present my interview with Dr. Marie Phalime. I remember the first time I came upon her work, I was up late and on YouTube (of course). I typed in "leaving medicine", scared and curious what I would find as the result. Her TEDx talk came up and I was enthralled. Her speech gave me chills. I love TEDx speeches and can binge through a dozen at a time, but for some reason, I stopped watching and, instead, felt compelled to reach out to her. I went on LinkedIn to search for her name, find out what she did now, and to let her know how powerful her speech was. I found her profile and sent her a long message about how much her speech meant to me and how it made me feel. I was surprised to hear back from her so soon and how kind she was (exactly how I'd imagine!). Of course, her generosity extends to this interview where she shares her journey, experience, and advice to everyone. Before you read the interview, check out the TEDx speech titled "The Doctor Who Walked Away": Begin Interview: 1. Tell me a little about yourself and how did you come to do your TedX talk?   I grew up during the apartheid years in South Africa, so life was tough for me as a Black girl living in a segregated country. I came from a working class family, and sacrifices needed to be made in order to keep the family going. I was fortunate, however, that my parents were firm believers in the value of education. They saved and sacrificed to send my brother and me to private school, which opened my eyes to possibilities beyond the circumstances I was born into. I did well at school, and I wanted to make a difference. So, when I was in high school I decided I wanted to be a doctor. I enrolled at the University of Cape Town, first for a Bachelor of Science degree and then Medicine. I loved studying, and when I graduated I anticipated having a long and successful career as a doctor. Unfortunately, my career didn’t work out that way. I burned out as a junior doctor, and I elected to leave clinical practice. In 2014 my memoir titled “Postmortem – The Doctor Who Walked Away” was published, which chronicles my journey through Medicine and the reasons I chose to walk away. After the book was published I was invited by the organisers of TEDx to share my story on their platform. 2. What was your life like after TedX? The talk enabled me to spread my message beyond South Africa’s borders. I have come to realise that many of the challenges I faced in my medical career are common to the practice of Medicine, irrespective of the country context in which people work. 3. You’re a career coach, life coach, speaker, and award-winning author; wow! How did you learn how to do all of this? After my book was published I was approached by many doctors who shared their own stories with me. I then realised that, even though I had intended for my book to bring closure to my medical journey, the book had also opened up a new chapter that required me to keep sharing my story and to help other doctors to thrive despite the challenges they face. This is why I qualified as a coach – to empower others. 4. If our readers wanted to become one of the things you’re doing, how can they learn these skills? Do you help physicians transition into doing coaching, speaking, and writing themselves? I help physicians to identify their career goals, to get clear on what it’s going to take to achieve them, and I support them on their journey. I’ve learned that often we think “it will be better over there”, whereas we need to find better ways to deal with what’s going on over here. 5. There are so many coaches out there, how do physicians pick the right one for them? I think it helps for physicians to be coached by other physicians who have qualified as coaches. The culture, training and challenges within Medicine may be difficult for people who haven’t walked that path to understand. Coaching happens through conversations; it helps when you speak the same language. 6. When does a physician know that it may be the time to seek the help of a physician coach? We all need a helping hand from time to time. Coaching is about getting the help you need to achieve the goals and results that are important to you. Therefore, the times to reach out to a coach are typically: when you feel stuck; when you are overwhelmed by a particular goal; and when you are in transition – either out of the profession or moving into a different level of responsibility. 7. What is a coaching program like? How is it structured? How long is it? How much should physicians budget aside for coaching services? Coaching programs differ, but the essentials of any program are: getting clear on what the client wants to achieve through the coaching; identifying where they are, their strengths and challenges; sketching out a roadmap to get the client from where they are to where they want to be through building their inner competencies such as self awareness, new habits and ways of being; ongoing feedback and review to ensure that the client is continuing to move in the desired direction. The actual coaching journey is co-created by the coach and the client, taking into account the particular challenges and circumstances of the client. Fees vary considerably! Physicians looking to hire a coach need to ensure that they speak to a number of prospective coaches to ensure the right fit between their styles, methodology and fees. In addition to a monetary budget, a physician considering coaching needs to also “budget” time and energy to allocate to the coaching process. 8. What are tips you can share for any physician dealing with burnout? Firstly, understand that burnout is not an indication of a personal failing or weakness. Burnout arises as a consequence of working in environments that predispose people to burning out. Therefore, dealing with burnout is not only about bringing changes into how we live and work, it’s also about addressing the workplace conditions that drive and perpetuate burnout. Valuable questions to ask yourself are: - How can I do more of the things that fuel me? - How can I do less of the things that drain me? (This includes self-inflicted stressors like perfectionism and perpetual success chasing). - If I can’t change anything in my work environment, how can I create opportunities for recovery and replenishment (e.g. scheduling leisure time with loved ones; pursuing hobbies; learning new skills; finding interesting projects to work on) - How will I know when I’m running on empty? What is my “go-to” strategy for coping? - Who can reach out to for support? End Interview The interview made me think a lot about how stress and burnout are finally being discussed in medicine. A few months ago, I went to a conference for physicians in my state and one of the workshops with the highest attendance rate was the one on physician burnout. I think it should've been its own conference because many physicians experience this, yet they may not actually have anyone to support them or feel comfortable sharing these feelings with. As physicians, we put high expectations on ourselves that, like Dr. Phalime says, things like burnout feel like a symptom of failure. I always get chills when I think about Dr. Phalime's speech where she says "some dreams must be allowed to die" because that's how you go on to live a better life for yourself.  Check out her  website  and book "Postmortem". For further questions, you can reach out to her by email ( Maria@MariaPhalime.com ) or via social media (Twitter: @MariaPhalime)  
Wow, this interview today is very special because it's with an extremely special individual, Dr. Travers. Now we all talk about how we choose to embark on a different journey than what we expected to be on. We made the conscious decision and mindset shift to begin a new career in the non-clinical realm.  But...what if we didn't make the conscious decision to leave medicine on our own? What if the decision was made for us, after we had completed training, started practicing, AND didn't plan on transitioning into a non-clinical career? That's exactly what happened to Dr. Travers whose disability changed the course of his life. I won't give anything away because I want you to experience the emotion and feel the powerful story that he shares.  Are you ready? Start Interview 1.  Tell me a little about yourself, your journey, and what you do? I was born with Osteogenesis Imperfecta (OI), Type 1, a bone disease which is caused by defective genes that make collagen.  Collagen provides bones tensile strength and without it, bones are quite fragile and break easy with little or no trauma at all.  I broke my first bone (femur) at 6 weeks old just lying in my crib. By the time I was two years old I had suffered 6 fractures and by the time I was ten I had suffered roughly 25 fractures.  Growing up I spent a vast amount of time in the hospital emergency room or my orthopedic surgeon’s office being treated for a new fracture or current fracture. There were times I actually wore two casts at a time for multiple fractures.  As one can imagine, breaking bones is a painful event, especially for children and I was very fortunate to have been a patient of an orthopedic surgeon named Michael Scala, MD. One thing Dr. Scala was gifted at was immediately calming me with his presence, his attentiveness and his “listening”.  When he would come into see me, he immediately addressed me, said hello to my parents and then turned his attention back to me and wanted to know what had happened. After hearing me out, he would tell me what bone he thought I broke, how he would treat it, and what his expected outcome was. From there I was off for x-rays which usually confirmed what he had suspected.  After this he would sit back down with me and answer any questions that I had. Only after our interaction was over, he would sit with my parents to answer any of their questions. As one can imagine, there were many times that Dr. Scala would not be the initial physician who would see me in an emergency room setting. During those times the physicians treating me would never really pay any attention to me.  They simply focused on the information provided by my parents, would then come to examine me and let my parents know what was going to happen. Dr. Scala made such an impression on me that I knew that when I grew up I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon just like him, not only to take care of people from a medical perspective but an emotional one as well. For my fourth-grade science fair project, I performed an open-heart transplant surgery explaining to the judges how this procedure took place.  I had two large cookie sheets with clay models on each sheet of the thoracic cavity contents consisting of the heart, lungs, arteries & veins, rib cage and sternum. With the use of an X-ACTO knife I demonstrated how the donor heart was removed from one chest and placed into the recipient chest. For time consideration, I didn’t actually suture the vessels back together but simply “smudged” the clay arteries & veins back together with my finger and closed the sternum in the same manner. Judges were amazed.  The following year in fifth grade I chose to do my science fair project on arteriosclerosis. I used two cans: a small Campbell soup can to be used as a healthy heart and a large whole tomato can to be uses as a diseased heart. I cut open four chambers in each can to represent the atria an ventricles. I used shoe laces in the small can to represent healthy cardiac vessels that surrounded the heart and dental floss as chordae tendineae inside the chambers. I then used my grandmothers’ thick yarn and placed that all around and in the larger “diseased heart” tomato can and represent the consequences of arteriosclerosis.   That was my life growing up.  Aside from the bone disease and the limits that placed on me, I had wonderful parents who obviously were very supportive and protective of me but also quite proud of me because they knew that I would grow up to become a physician. 2. What was that moment like when you realized you no longer could practice medicine? Did you think about that moment before and planned ahead for alternatives? What were some other careers you were planning on doing in place of clinical medicine? Initially I didn’t know or even thought of what the impact would be.  I literally went to bed one night watching the Tonight Show and being awoken early the following morning with a splitting headache.  First thing I noticed was that the TV was on and I could no longer hear the sound coming from the TV. I said a few words out loud and could no longer hear my voice.  As I later learned, another sign and/or symptom with Osteogenesis Imperfecta is “hearing loss”. There are three small bones in one’s ear responsible for sound conduction.  These bones are also defective in patients with OI and at times cannot perform their job. ENT surgeons attempted a “stapes operation” which I was informed was a “routine” procedure on my right ear to restore my hearing but that wasn’t the case.  There were complications and I am totally deaf in that ear. It took me some time to have the procedure performed on my left ear and even though there were no complications this time, I only have minimal hearing with the use of a hearing aid.  With the hearing aid off I am totally deaf. It was after the surgeries I contacted the medical boards and was informed that with the inability to use a stethoscope, I would not be able to pursue a career in medicine. I had graduated from medical school but still had oral/bedside boards to pass but with not being able to auscultate lung fields, heart sounds, etc. that was it. I had such a narrow focus growing up of simply wanting to become a physician, nothing else ever entered my mind. Subsequently I had no alternatives in place.  I had bills to pay like everyone else but unlike most people I also had a substantial student loan obligation that I was required to pay. I simply took the first minimum wage job position I could obtain, and things only worsened financially from there. 3. If you didn’t have the disease that took away your hearing, do you think you would have you have eventually started your business or a business in general? How different would your life have been? I have no doubt I would have had a successful career in medicine.  I was fortunate to excel in medical school, especially my clinical training 3rd and 4th years.  My preceptors were impressed with my knowledge, technique and bedside manner.  Nurses are on the frontline in medicine having direct contact with a variety of physicians on a daily basis.  They were invaluable in my training and to be acknowledged by them early on in my career only fueled my focus. My life would have been dramatically different from a financial standpoint had I been able to continue my career as a physician.  Having the financial obligations of a physician, especially student loans, and not being financially compensated as one was a slow and systematic down fall.  My student loan obligation was $80,000 at the time, small by today’s standards. My monthly payment was $890.00 which I could not afford. I had my loans put into “forbearance” with a reduced monthly payment of roughly $200.00.  What I didn’t realize was that there was still a daily interest accrual, meaning that $619.82 was being ADDED to the principal EACH MONTH. Over a 5-year period of NEVER MISSING a forbearance payment my student loan principal GREW from $80,000 to $117,189.40.  Student loans ARE NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy and I had no solution for my situation. I ultimately “defaulted” on my student loans. Eventually I lost my home, surrendered my car and had to move in with a friend and obtained a bus pass for transportation.  I literally was homeless, having to reside with friends and family. 4. What was your motivation for creating BlueScleradi.com? My motivation for creating BlueScleraDi came in a roundabout way. As I learned from experience, getting that word “default” on one’s credit report is a death sentence for your credit history.  At the time, my situation was very dire as I was depressed and homeless, but I knew I had to do something to change my situation.  First thing I tried to do was get a better higher paying job. Earlier, I had pharmaceutical companies tripping over themselves trying to get me onboard as a sales rep for their company, but I had no interest at that time.  Who better to detail a company’s pharmaceutical product to a physician than another physician. One thing I had and will always have is the designation after my name: MD. That is an immediate door opener. I had saved contact info from the big pharmaceutical companies that were pursuing me earlier and I started calling them back (actually “calling” them, computers were in their infancy, “Google” just started and “social media” was not relevant).  They were all excited to hear from me, I went and met with executives at local offices close to where I was living, and things were looking promising to the point I had the pick of the lot. Unfortunately, I was not offered one position with any company. I was denied employment simply because of my “credit report”. As part of a universal application process in all industries, all candidates have their credit report reviewed. In my case my “credit score” fell below hiring guidelines.  I remained positive and chose to motivate myself to press on and I was able to get another job. I received a position at Rhode Island Hospital which is affiliated with the Brown University School of Medicine that has numerous residency training programs. Part of the interview process meant I had to get approval from the department program director. When I met with him I was straight forward with that my credit report was “flawed” and I went on to tell him my story and he was quite understanding, and he literally hired me on the spot. I found myself working alongside medical students and residents on a daily basis when one day one of the residents approached me and indicated they had heard what happened to me.  She and her colleagues wanted to know if I had “disability insurance” at the time of my hearing loss and I had indicated I never heard of such a thing. From there I researched what “disability insurance” was and eventually realized that if I did have coverage, I would not have suffered financially and be in the current predicament I was in. The residents that were training in that department were there for a year, but the medical students were rotating in and out of this department every six weeks. For the next five years, I would have an opportunity to address the residents at least once a year and new medical students every six weeks about what happened to me and how important disability insurance is. One day I approached a few of the new students and introduced myself when one of the students indicated they had heard about me.  She stated the previous students said I would be talking to them and they should listen to what I have to say. After I told them my story she said something that changed my life forever: “this is your calling, you should do this, why can’t we get this coverage through you?”. Later that night when I returned home I got on the computer to find insurance companies that offer disability insurance, emailed a few companies and had my first interview a few days later. I would ultimately obtain my insurance license and return to lecturing to the residency training programs at the hospital where I once worked. At the end of each lecture I would tell them that it would be a few years before I would be allowed to open up my own office. I explained to them my training was similar to that in medicine and I was starting at a “career agency” called MW Financial.  I planned on remaining affiliated with that firm, using their name for two years but after that I had plans on calling my business “Blue Sclera Disability Insurance” to be run out of their office. The bone disease I have, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, has a pathognomonic finding found in the sclera of one’s eyes. Individuals usually have “white” sclera, because the white is actually made up of collagen. People with Osteogenesis Imperfecta are devoid of collagen in their bodies therefore they don’t have white sclera, their sclera has a blue tinge. When a doctor is presented with a patient that has OI the first thing they do is examine the sclera. I would ask residents for their feedback at the end of my lecture about my plans of calling my business Blue Sclera and they thought it was perfect. Anytime they would know of someone that was looking for Disability Insurance they would remember to direct them to me at BlueScleraDi.  The power of first impressions and imprinting just as when I was growing up during those impressionable years and the imprinting Dr. Scala had on me. I thought I could use this to my benefit as a marketing tool. At the time, my focus was simply scheduling lectures.  I knew that my real-life experience was a factor in obtaining clients and growing my business.  I also was able to secure disability insurance for myself never thinking I was ever going to need it, but I was wrong.  Blue Sclera Disability Insurance itself was a few years away and for the time being I was simply a representative with MW Financial. On August 12th, 2008 I was lecturing down in New York to a residency training program and I was scheduled to lecture back up in Boston at Umass / Harvard on Friday August 14th, 2008.  Thursday August 13th, 2008, my day off found my arriving at the pool to meet my wife and two young daughters, Madison age 5 and Rylee age 2 in the afternoon.  Upon arriving there I collapsed in front of them after suffering a Spontaneous Sub-Dural Hematoma. I would remain on a life-support enduring 2 life-saving brain surgeries during that time that failed to find the source of the bleed.   As I lay there with half my skull inserted into my abdomen for “safe keeping”, my wife began to consider follow through with my wishes of organ donation. She arrived at the ICU one morning to find my entire family already there, crying.  She immediately remembered her phone was off and she then thought I had passed during the night. However, she was approached by uncle to hear two words she thought she would never hear: “he’s awake!”. She came into the room and we made eye contact and I never fell back into the coma.  A few days passed, and my wife and mother arrived at the ICU one morning. The doctors indicated that I was doing well but I was repeating the numbers “675” and I kept rubbing my thumb and fingers together. My wife stated that my hearing aid battery model is 675 and I was letting them know it needed to be replaced.  She went on to inform them that I was rubbing my fingers because I was probably worried about money and I wanted to make sure my family was okay. My mother wrote down what my wife was saying, and an image of that exact page is located below. Here I am now, ten years later getting “Blue Sclera Disability Insurance” up and running with the support of my wife and daughters.  The motivation has never left, and I am grateful to have a second chance at life. The interesting thing is a few years ago I told my wife I wanted to explore getting back into lecturing and she could handle the business end which she agreed to.  Last year I was referred to a physician and during our initial consultation he learned about my story and background with disability insurance. His eyes lit up as he informed me he didn’t know about the disability coverage he had in-force at the time.  My wife and I reviewed it and determined that his representative set him up with life insurance from one company (Northwest Mutual), the company the representative was contracted with, but his disability coverage was with another company (Guardian). This physician is in private practice and the representative obtained base coverage for him with “resident limits” without any future insurance or inflation coverage that wouldn’t require future medical underwriting.  Meaning he needed more coverage but would now have to submit to another physical and be at risk for limits to his coverage with higher premiums. This is the motivation we had to move forward with Blue Sclera Disability Insurance. 5. Have you had experience in the insurance industry before working as an advisor at MW Financial? How did you get started with the particular group you were working with, versus another insurance group? I had no insurance experience, actually no work experience for that matter growing up.  I had spent my entire life in a classroom and I had generous parents who allowed me to pursue other things during my summers off from school growing up. The first insurance company I interviewed with actually paid for my insurance school training and required tests.  On the day I arrived at the local satellite office with my test results, I had my young daughter Madison in my arms who wasn’t even walking yet.  It was at this I was informed that they were not going to hire me because of my “credit score”. Again, this motivated me more than ever. Ultimately, I met with the company that has been in the forefront for disability insurance coverage for physicians, Guardian Berkshire.  Their satellite office is called MW Financial owned and operated by Bob Worgaftik located in Connecticut. I was living in Rhode Island and they had just opened an office in Warwick, RI where I was living at the time, so it worked out perfectly.  Bob went out of his way to speak on my behalf to the home office and I was secured a position with them and my career had started. My long-term objective was to eventually operate under “Blue Sclera Disability Insurance” but I had no plans to leave that firm. 6. What do you see are the biggest challenges physicians face when trying to start their own businesses? How can physicians avoid this? A big challenge anyone would face when starting a new business is not having a business plan.  From my experience, a business plan is a roadmap for success as it outlines your vision and path to become successful.  It allows you to look at short term objectives that need to be met right now along with long-term objectives that will allow for continued business growth.   7. What advice would you give to physicians who don’t go into residency and want to immediately start their entrepreneurial journey?  If you truly passionate about something and you believe you have found a need for your product or service, then perform a test market and go from there.   8. What if a physician wanted to be an entrepreneur, but have no idea where to start. What’s the first step to starting a business? Look to see if there are other companies offering your service or product you would like to offer.  See who the competitors are and determine why some are more successful than others. What could your business offer in that particular market place that would set you apart from your competitors.  If your about to introduce a new service or product that is not currently being offered, then you’re one step ahead but make sure you’ve established there is a need for your product or service. First impressions are very important and in order to hit the ground running, make sure you have a sound business plan. 9. Do you recommend finding a mentor? Do you have one and how did you find yours? Becoming an entrepreneur and finding a mentor should go hand-in-hand.  Having the ability to learn from an experienced advisor in your in your field is invaluable.  I was fortunate enough early on in my career to get involved with Tom Wong, Regional Individual Disability Manager for The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America.  I would not have achieved the level of success I did without his help. As my wife and I get ready to pick up where we left off ten years ago, the first person we called was Tom. 10. It can be really overwhelming starting something brand new, what’s the best advice you can share with physicians thinking about, but feeling scared, about starting their own business? Understanding and accepting that in order to succeed, failure may come first, and you can’t let that deter you from what your trying to accomplish.  Every successful business in operation today no matter how big or small all have a few things in common. They started with humble beginnings and were faced with many obstacles, but all successful businesses also had a business plan guiding them through difficult times. 11. What’s the next step for you? Our main focus right now is the completion of our website.  Ten years ago, the power of my message was giving my lecture live in-person to an audience.  After hearing my story, the business followed, and I am grateful for that. Today with the “social media”, I can now leverage that platform to a larger audience.  Rather than having to be physically standing in front of residency training program giving my presentation, I now can record my presentation and post the video on our website to be viewed at any time.  At one time I would have to physically drive to a hospital and approach each department requesting an opportunity to give my presentation. Living in Rhode Island at the time, I spent my days traveling up to Boston or down to New York and New Jersey just to arrange presentations. After securing speaking dates, I would then return to present to the residents.  Now I can email a program director or chief resident and ask them to have their residents go to our website and watch my video, submit their info to us and generate illustrations. I still prefer to present live-in person which I will still do here locally Florida or wherever the opportunity presents itself but “social media” will allow me to reach out to other programs in other states that I ordinarily would not be able to reach. Once the website is completed and business is up and running, I plan on determining what avenue to pursue to have my book published.  Whether that be submitting it to an actual publisher or self-publishing. End Interview I feel grateful for knowing Dr. Travers. Dr. Travers didn't let his disability define him, but he let how he responded to the disability define him.  I could't believe the journey Dr. Travers has gone through. Ah, I learned so much in both business and life.
Okay, you guys are in for quite a treat because this interview provided me with so much new and useful information! Today's interview is with Robert Priddy, a trusted confidential advisor for more than 1,200 physicians seeking non-clinical career transitions or restructured clinical practices. I stumbled upon his website (and stayed on it) looking for resume help for physicians looking to transition into non-clinical careers; how to stand out to recruiters.  It was an excellent read so check it out here:  The Resume Recruiter Love to Hate . The moment I read Bob Priddy's work and through this interview, I knew he was a no-nonsense kind of guy who gives you tough love, but you know that it is effective advice that will help you succeed. Start Interview 1. Tell me a little about yourself, what you do, and how did you come to work with physicians? I’ve been working with physicians in practice and then career development since 1981. Originally, in four separate hospital posts, I had recruiting, staff development and practice development responsibilities, but then after leaving the provider side, practice consulting evolved into my current business of physician nonclinical career transition. I’ve been engaged in this business as an entrepreneur for the past 15 or so years. 2. What are the greatest challenges that physicians face when attempting to make a  career transition? How can they avoid these mistakes and challenges? The greatest challenges is simply allowing themselves to believe they can provide significant value outside medical/surgical practice. Physicians tend to limit their own perspectives and downplay what I’ll call their nonclinical knowledge and ability. Remember, medical practice is about “staying within the lines.” Business is about creating your own lines. You overcome challenges by simply pushing them aside. Most challenges, that is challenges physicians face in moving outside medical practice, are self-imposed. As I say almost daily, ‘take off your blinders,” it’s a big world out there with many things you can do. 3. Are there a lot of options for physicians without residency training? Yes, if physicians can step outside their self-imposed box and simply look at themselves as highly educated problem solvers, they can then see that the processes they learned to study and solve problems is effective in almost any setting. 4. What are some careers that are less known as options for physicians? Consider franchises of nearly anything. I know physicians who’ve been frustrated cooks who became chefs.... I have a client who makes violins, Mindfulness coaches and consultants in various stripes. But also, you can’t discount the Big Four: Pharma, Finance, Providers and Insurance. They are still viable, but they don’t represent easy next steps (or first steps following years of practice) simply because they have so many physicians in their ranks they can source from a group of existing experts. Consider, if Bayer wants to hire a medical director, will they hire someone fresh from practice or someone who is already a pharma/bio-tech medical director. Common sense says the latter. (Take this quiz here to check your Your Nonclinical Job IQ ) 5. How can physicians find the right recruiter? It seems like recruiters want a lot of experience in resumes, but for a physician transitioning into a new career, they don’t always have enough experience. The simple answer, they can’t. Now, lightening does strike somewhere on earth about 100 times every second, but I’ve been on this earth for about 67 years and I’ve never experienced a strike. So, yes, you may have heard of some physician being called by a recruiter and getting hired, but don’t count on it... don’t make if your primary strategy for getting your first nonclinical job. Consider recruiters or HR people this way. They are hired to fill an order. Read their job openings. Do you match 100% the criteria and qualifications for the job? If yes, then apply, but if not, trust me, someone will, and when your job is to fill a specific order, will you pass along the resume of the person meeting all the requirements or of someone who does not? Also, read this: http://www.thirdevo.com/nonclinical-careers/recruiters 6. For physicians start planning for a transition into a nonclinical career, what can they start doing today? How long does the transition normally take? Today, begin by creating a three column list; i. Column One = Interests and Passions ii. Column Two = Skills iii. Column Three = Knowledge Column One should be the most important for decision making. If you’re not passionate or at the very least interested in something, don’t pursue it as a career. Then, match the next two columns with supporting skills and knowledge for your Interests... That points you in the right direction – and just like treating a patient, without that “right direction” which you might also call your Career DiagnosisTM, you can treat. How long... I always tell clients to plan on a nine to 14 month window for a job and up to 24 months to start an entrepreneurial endeavor. End Interview Good advice right? Specific and helps you to take action. What really resonated with me was when he said that a whole new world of endless careers opens up when the physicians removes himself/herself from his/her "self-imposed box and simply look at themselves as highly educated problem solvers, they can then see that the processes they learned to study and solve problems is effective in almost any setting".  We really do self-impose ourselves in our own little boxes and limit ourselves. Mindset is the key to a successful career transition.  Check out his  website for more resources.
Okay, I am super excited to present this interview. This woman does it all. Dr. Lynn Marie Morski is a physician, lawyer, and lifelong quitter who helps physicians plan their strategic quit and ultimately, create the lives of their dreams. Her website "Quitting by Design" has so much deep content and advice. She also has a podcast that goes along with the website. (I also need to add that she is a talented yoga instructor, speaker, educator, henna artist, and the list goes on...) I first heard Dr. Morski on the Discover your Talent podcast in which she spoke about preparing for your "big quit": https://www.discoveryourtalentpodcast.com/podcast/lynn-marie-morski/ It was so fascinating that she was helping individuals orchestrate their "big quit" and that quitting was something to be proud of, and not ashamed of. Being in a nonclinical role, I always felt a little bashful when talking to other medical providers. I would brief over what I do because I hated explaining why I didn't want to do a clinical role full time, why I wanted to learn new skills. I often got the response of "why..?" along with a funny look.  The times when I've spoken to Dr. Morski, I have found her to be such a kind and humble individual. She's so willing to help others, sharing her time and experience. No matter where you are in your life and career, I know you will find much value and advice from this interview. I know I l did! Check out her website and Quit Happens podcast.   Start Interview: 1. You’re a lawyer, physician, yoga instructor, henna artist, musician, etc, how do you do it all?! What’s a typical day in your life like? Did you design it out to be this way? I'll take these all individually, there's a lot in there! How do I do it all? I don't do it all all the time. For example, my lawyering is only used in pro bono situations now that I no longer teach law. I only teach yoga in charity situations, so this certification falls under the "have it if I need it" category - kind of like the law degree. Both the law degree and the yoga certification I got because I wanted to do them (law school sounded fun, as did yoga teacher training) not necessarily because I ever intended to use them. Like yoga, I only do henna for free or for charity, so 99% of the time I'm only henna-ing myself! I play music either when inspired or when a friend wants to come over and jam or do an open mic. I generally train capoeira one night per week. There are two types of typical days: Mondays and Tuesdays are one type and the rest of the days are the other. On Mondays and Tuesdays I work at the VA in the Compensation and Pension department from 8:30-1:30. I'm a contract worker, which means I only get paid per veteran and if they don't show I don't get paid, and there are no benefits (I feel this is necessary before I share the next part), but that ten hours is what I have made a living on for the past eight years, which has allowed me to go to law school and try the start-up life and go to yoga teacher training and write a book and start the podcast. On weekday nights I either train capoeira (a Brazilian martial art), go to yoga, play tennis, or attend events of some sort. On the days I don't work in medicine, I work on my podcast/speaking/coaching. I am also in preparations for the release of my book, "Quitting by Design" next month. So on those days I'll be recording and releasing podcasts, writing blog posts, working with clients, preparing speeches, etc. But that's all after I spend the morning doing breathwork, meditating, journaling, working out, taking a long walk, and reading in the sauna. I'm well aware I could get more done if my morning routine weren't so elaborate, but I'm also well aware that I wouldn't be as happy, and at the end of the day, that's my main goal. I definitely designed my life, but almost by accident. About two months in to my sports medicine fellowship I realized I just didn't enjoy practicing traditional medicine, and I definitely didn't enjoy sports medicine's crazy hours. So at that point I decided I would never work 40 hours a week in medicine. After fellowship I continued working sporadically at the urgent care where I had been moonlighting during fellowship. I had initially taken a part-time sports medicine job, but they didn't have enough patients to support my salary, so at that point I began looking for non-traditional medicine jobs. I was about to sign with McKesson to be a demo person for their EMR when I found my current job on twitter, posted by the handle @getphysicianjobs. The job came with a salary cap that meant I could only work a few days a week, and it allowed me to make my own schedule, which is something that was crucial in being able to design the life I currently lead. But what was important was that I knew what I didn't want, and held firm on that. I didn't want to spend 40 hours a week seeing patients, and luckily I found a job that accomodates that. 2. How did you come to starting your website? What about your podcast? Warning, long story ahead. Since starting law school, I hadn't taken any time off - I had began working with a startup right after taking the bar exam, then after quitting that I began teaching law and then I became a Bernie Sanders delegate to the DNC. After returning from the DNC I told the law school I was taking the semester off, because I wanted to figure out what my true calling was, because none of these things I was trying had led to a feeling of flow, and as someone who had experienced flow through my hobbies, I was determined to recreate that feeling in a work environment. So I met with a friend to chat about it, and I had brought two lists with me. One was what I was good at, and the second was what I liked to do. At the top of the list of what I was good at was quitting. No kidding. And what I liked to do included write and do public speaking and give advice. So that day, my friend told me to put up a website about quitting and start blogging and maybe make webinars. That later morphed into me writing a book, and the podcast came up because after I gave the book to the publisher, I wanted a way to give people information about strategic quitting in an easily-disseminated form while waiting for the book to come out. Thus the 'Quit Happens' podcast was born. 3. Where did the concept of Quitting by Design come from, and can you tell us more about it? The website and concept formulation took awhile. I think my friend David (who was the one I met with to figure out my calling and also the person I hired to do my original website) and I were talking about a name of it and somehow Quitting by Design came to me. I later used it as the book title because the book is a guide on how to develop the skills needed to design your strategic quits, so I felt it fit well. 4. For physicians who are contemplating a change, but still working full time in a clinical role, what would you advise they do to start making the transition?   The first step is to identify what isn't working for them. Do they want to leave medicine entirely, or just their specialty, or perhaps only their current position. I had a guest on the podcast who is a facial plastic surgeon who was so frustrated with his schedule that he was thinking about quitting surgery altogether, but instead he decided to only do the types of surgery he enjoyed and also asked his boss for a more flexible schedule (to which the boss agreed). Prior to making any major moves, I'd suggest they only quit whatever is truly keeping them from enjoying their job. However, if it's the entire field of medicine itself, then the transition will be much different. Therefore, identifying exactly what needs to go is a crucial first step. 5. How does a physician know if it’s the burnout causing them to feel a need for a change, or if a change is really what they want to do? I notice all the questions refer to quits as "changes" and that's fine. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the term "quitting" but part of my mission is to de-stigmatize quitting, especially for those in professions that took an extreme amount of time and training to achieve. That's a very interesting and important distinction you brought up. As I alluded to above, it's important to figure out what's not working, so I think in this scenario they should ask for a temporarily reduced schedule/workload or an extended vacation to see if clearing out the exhaustion leads to increased job satisfaction. If that's not possible, I'd advise them to pay very close attention to their bodies. Do they get anxious at work only if there is a really packed schedule or is it all the time? Do they dread all parts of the job or is it just when paperwork stacks up that they want to throw in the towel? These types of investigations should help clear up whether the problem is burnout or the problem is medicine itself. Sadly, the way most practitioners have to function today, the two often become one in the same, but again, attempting creative solutions like the surgeon I referenced above can help prevent burnout and lead to a more balanced work life. 6. When does someone know that they might need a career coach? What is a career coach exactly? How can a career coach help?   I should clarify that I'm actually a quitting coach, which is a bit different from a career coach, but I'll try to explain them both. A career coach generally helps you figure out what career is best for you and may help with your job search, resume, interview process, etc. Or they may help you reach the next level in your current career if it's one that's working for you. What I do is help people through the process of strategic quitting, which, as I mentioned above, starts with identifying what, if anything, needs to be quit. I then help them through the rest of the process, which involves overcoming any quitting-related fears, preparing any necessary logistics, and then enacting the quit in a way that leads to the best outcome for everyone involved. 7. A lot of physicians are very scared about going into a new career, leaving behind that path they expected to go on, and not being certain of their future. What is a piece of advice you can offer them? As physicians we're generally big fans of evidence-based entities. And if we've gotten to a point where we were in the lucky 1/3 of applicants who actually got accepted to medical school, then finished and (most often) completed a residency or fellowship, (which is one of the most taxing training regimens of any career), then the evidence would point to the fact that we're both fairly intelligent, resilient, and resourceful. Those characteristics don't disappear when we leave medicine, and they're going to be hugely helpful in whatever the next career is that we try to pursue. So I'd advise them focusing on that as a way of combatting the fear of the unknown that is present when anyone of any career makes a huge transition. They have the smarts to figure out their next path, resiliency to hustle hard to make their new chosen career work, and the resourcefulness to find a way to make it all work so that they're not going to be left penniless on the street. I'd also remind them that, like I just said, they're not alone in this fear, and they shouldn't feel 1. ashamed for feeling it, or 2. as if that fear is an indicator that they're headed for failure. It's an indicator that you're human and have a functioning self-preservation mechanism, which is a good thing!   8. What’s the next step for you? Next up for me is the launch of my book next month, which will include a podcast tour where I get to talk about the benefits of strategic quitting all over the virtual airwaves, which I'm really excited about. I also have a series of guests in Los Angeles lined up so I'm taking Quit Happens on the road in a few weeks for the short drive up from San Diego where I live to interview some incredible humans, one of whom is also a practicing physician. I also intend to hold more workshops on strategic quitting and quitting as self-care so as to help coach larger groups and get them quitting their way to a fulfilling life.   End Interview... I love how Dr. Morski made a promise to herself that she didn't want a certain kind of life, that she acquired so many skills (yoga, law degree, medical degree, henna, playing music, etc) and puts them together like puzzle pieces to create the ideal life for her. I'm making my two lists now too, one of what I am good at and one of what I like to do. Awesome ideas! Can't wait until her book is out and want more interviews? Check out all her interviews at  http://lynnmariemorski.com/media/
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